Shang Yang

c. 390 - 338 BCE · Chinese (a scion of the ruling house of Wey; chief minister of Qin, Warring States period) · Chinese Political Philosophy, the fa Tradition (Legalism), Statecraft, Philosophy of History

If by war one wishes to abolish war, even war is permissible; if by killing one wants to abolish killing, even killing is permissible; if by punishments one wishes to abolish punishments, even heavy punishments are permissible.

Shang Yang (c. 390 – 338 BCE), born Gongsun Yang, a minor prince of the small state of Wey, came west to Qin in 361 BCE carrying nothing but a method, and in twenty-one years he turned the most backward of the great powers into the state that would unify China a century after his death. Duke Xiao gave him authority in 359 after a court debate in which he argued that no age is bound by the rites of the one before it. He grouped households into units that answered for one another, made military merit and grain the only roads to rank, cut down the hereditary nobility, laid out counties under…

Topics Shang Yang addresses

• changing laws with the times
• stage theory of society
• human nature as self-interested
• controlling fame and profit
• heavy punishment for light offences
• abolishing penalties by penalties
• punishment without regard to rank
• rewards only for agriculture and war
• the One: agriculture and war
• impartial published law
• law as standard like scales and measures
• officials and law officers who teach the law
• mutual responsibility groups of five and ten households
• denunciation rewarded like battle merit
• ranks granted for military merit
• registers and statistics of land and population
• county system under appointed officials
• opening the field boundaries
• parasites of the state: Odes, History, rites and music
• merchants, artisans and itinerant persuaders as idle mouths
• weakening the people to strengthen the state
• ignorance of the people
• strength over laws
• self-strengthening state

Questions to put to Shang Yang

Changing Laws with the Times

• Why shouldn't rulers simply follow the ways of the ancient sage-kings?
• What's your stage theory of how societies develop from kinship bonds to rulers and ranked offices?
• How do you decide when an old law has outlived its usefulness?
• What happened in your debate with Gan Long and Du Zhi, and what was really at stake?
• If every age makes its own laws, what stops a ruler from changing the laws arbitrarily whenever it suits him?

Human Nature, Fame, and Profit

• What do you mean when you say people are by nature self-interested?
• How can a ruler govern effectively by working with people's self-interest rather than trying to make them virtuous?
• What's the difference between controlling where fame and profit lead people versus simply bribing them?
• Why do you think moral instruction and appeals to virtue are not enough to move people to farm and fight?
• Does your view of human nature leave any room for genuine loyalty or courage, or are those just profit by another name?

Punishments, Collective Liability, and the End of Punishment

• What do you mean by the idea that heavy punishments for small offences will eventually abolish punishment altogether?
• How do you argue that punishments should apply equally regardless of a person's rank or past service?
• What's the reasoning behind organizing households into groups of five and ten that are responsible for each other's conduct?
• Why should someone who fails to report a neighbor's crime be punished as harshly as the criminal?
• How do you answer those who say that collective punishment of families for one person's crime is simply unjust?

Agriculture, War, and the One

• What do you mean by 'the One,' and why do you single out farming and warfare above everything else?
• Why do you treat merchants, traveling scholars, and artisans as a drain on the state rather than contributors to it?
• What's your argument for why the Odes, ritual, music, and moral teachings actually weaken a state?
• How does granting ranks and titles strictly for heads taken in battle change the character of an army?
• You say a weak people makes a strong state — can you walk me through what you mean by that?

Law as Standard and the Shape of the State

• What do you mean when you compare law to scales and measures — something even the ruler must be weighed against?
• Why is it important that laws be written down, published, and explained by officials to anyone who asks?
• How do appointed county officials under the law differ from the hereditary nobles they replaced, and why does that matter?
• What role do registers of land and population play in governing a state well?
• You describe a future unified empire where clear laws make executions unnecessary — how does the harsh path lead to that peaceful end?

Converse with Shang Yang on Simposeum. Replies are grounded in the texts that record Shang Yang, cited to the page.